Freedom Of Internet Is Dead On Sony China’s Vaio Computers

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Green Dam is content-control software developed in the People’s Republic of China (PRC). Under a directive from the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) of the PRC taking effect on July 1st 2009, it is mandatory to have either the software, or its setup files pre-installed on, or shipped on a compact disc with, all personal computers sold in Mainland China, including those imported from abroad. The government says the filtering software, called “Green Dam-Youth Escort,” is aimed at blocking pornography and other content inappropriate for children. But industry officials fear it will also be used to block political content – exposing them to accusations of abetting censorship – and that the software contains security and technical flaws. Green Dam automatically downloads the latest updates of a list of prohibited sites from an online database, and also collects private user data. Update: Looks like Green Dam is getting delayed.

CHINA-INTERNET/

Sony has already embraced this mandatory software by having the software installed in VAIO computers destined for China well in advance of the mandate, but is disclaiming responsibility for any damage caused by the Web filtering software. We’re not blasting them for having this software – Sony has to so they can continue to sell computers in the country, but it sure is a major step backwards for freedom of information. How can young Chinese children, aspiring for worldly knowledge, know about democracy, or the tragedy of Tienanmen Square?

A photo of a Sony document disclaiming the authenticity, legality, and functionality of Green Dam has been posted online at RConversation, a blog maintained by Rebecca MacKinnon, assistant professor at the Journalism & Media Studies Center at the University of Hong Kong. The picture was originally posted via TwitPic by a Chinese blogger in Hangzhou, China, who found the notice in a box with a new Sony Vaio computer.

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29
Jun 2009
POSTED IN

Hardware, Opinion, Vaio

DISCUSSION 34 Comments
  • Zizone

    The idea this “freedom” which applies to almost everything is the idea from our society. I don't see why our standard should be applied to different nation. Just as we don't adopt Chinese form of government and their ideas to our society, I don't think we have right to impose our ideals to their society.

  • Johnson

    Oh, the previous comment is so philosophical. In China, most Japanese company play a very prudential role in the business, try to avoid involving into the politics. In China, you have to GUESS what is behind the government action. Sometimes, it does not so easy to do so. So that Sony just follow the regulation, that's all.

  • John

    To all Hackers, use the vulnerabilities of the Green Wall software and exploit it so that the whole web crashes! Happy hunting!

  • realSONYGuru

    Zizone u r so right, all those words are merely made up concept by us, we give them meanings based on our history, culture, value, etc, i consider shoving these vaules down others' throats is a violation of their RIGHTS, dont u think? this is a very American way or Western Way, unlike Asian countries, they are very modest about their success, never put it out on the surface, they do not force others to believe what they believe, which is shown clearly in their belief system (if u aint into Jesus, they say you go to hell, but if you dont believe in Budda, nothing happens, they do not FROCE YOU), they are very protective ppl especially the Chinese, can u blame them, for what the country went thru in the last 100 yrs? it was simply RAPED by most of the Western countries who believed strongly in democracy.

    it is foolish to think that those kids wont be able to learn anything valuable simply becuz they cant watch some of those BS contents made by FOX and CNN, and in fact it's not true, cuz u can actaully watch CNN, BBC, and many other American, international channels even HBO in China. “Democracy” what is that? it works only when most ppl agree with you, otherwise, u r out of luck, so it is no different than what any other country is doing in the world, perhaps only not in N korea and some African countries.

    Tienanmen Sqaure? god r ppl still on this? It was totally fabricated story by the WEST, it was nothing like what they said in the NEWS, just like last yr tibet Riot (Do u know what happened to French business after the French News made stories say how the Chinese abused and killed those ppl? Nation wise stopped buying French Goods, the world second largest superstore chain was on the verge of bankruptcy, and the French president had to come out to apologize in order to make the ppl feel a bit better about buyin French goods again.) u werent there, nor u ever befriended with ppl who were there, and if all ur source and knowlege was based on Western Media, nothing from the ppl within that country, i say this is also a violation of democracy.

    if u r interseted, check the videos on youtube, where the stupid guy standing in front of a chain of tanks, look closely at the tank cannon tip, they were ALL covered up, if they were ought to KILL them all, shouldn't they have the tank ready to fire? and if they werent give a damn about the ppl, why wouldn't the tank just run over that stupid guy which the West calls him a hero? and talk to Chinese ppl who are here in America or Canada who expnericed the incident, they would tell you the same thing, it was the WEST made it more than what it was. MANY MANY things simply do NOT add up.

    Stop pushing our vaule and “freedom” to other people, it does NOT work, why will we ever learn? Iraq anyone? those ppl there hate the US, unlike what Bush though that they would love him and perhps erect a statue of him, r u kidding. I thought only southern RedNecks think that way,. we SONY lovers should be more open and advanced, like.no.other, eh!

  • realSONYGuru

    also, the Country has the RIGHT and OBLIGATION to do whatever is necessary to protect the Greater Good, the country's stability, and it cannot compromise on that front only becuz a few ppl wanna separate the country nor “sell” it to the WEST. just like the US won't compromise on Iran becuz they believe differently than us.

  • sonyinsider

    So you're saying its okay that the Chinese government controls what websites its citizens visit?

  • sonyinsider

    I'm not pushing and value or freedom – I just think that someone should be able to visit any website they want to without limitation. Censorship and total Internet control in this day and age is pretty absurd.

  • realSONYGuru

    well, that depends on where and who. In China it's quite impossible to do that, cuz there are and have always been ppl willing to “sell” their country to the WEST, and frankly, the WEST has always have one hand in China's internal affairs. thus the country needs different way to govern.

    besdies, do u know what it is like to govern 1.4 billion ppl? exactly, so we can't use anything we learned nor vauled here in the West as a standard to judge what they are doing.

    and to them, what we are doing here on a daily basisis “absurd”, different vaule, history produces different perspective. we need to look thru their glasses once in a while. then u'll see the differences and why.

  • Zizone

    What I am saying is that we can't say it's right or wrong. I am just saying, we can't judge foreign Government's policy for its own citizens based on our (in this case, US) Constitution or our belief system. Our ways of governing and our life style is very valid for our society but our standard should not and is not the starndard for every or international society. It seems like people view US or most Western society's system is the standard for international society but then how is that globalization not Westernization?

  • Jurisprudence

    I actually had to register just to comment on what has been said by Zizone and realSONYGuru. Particularly a few points to realSONYGuru who is obviously has issues with basic argumentative logic and the law.

    1) It is a right to express myself in my country (Ireland). That is where I am posting from. You cannot tell me not to do so. This website is obviously not under the PRC governments control and as such I'll express myself as I feel as shall the writer as allowed by law, just not theirs.

    2) For many states it is an obligation (I don't need to use caps like a child to get a point across) for government to pronounce externally whether a particular state of affairs is not deemed permissible and is indeed incompatible with their laws, constitutions, charters etc. It not only solidifies the lines of their own laws but often assists in drawing attention to laws in another country which may (subjectively) be deemed unjust, often by the majority of their citizens and or UN nations. It also allows their citizens greater understanding of varying laws and regimes.

    3) All governments have an obligation to protect the country. However, they must show it is for the greater good. Problematically the PRC government merely state it is so and do nothing more to convince the wider (even non-western) world. It is also a states responsibility to act responsibly when faced with such questions by outside countries even when such countries have no legal mandate. Its called relations, look it up, if your allowed.

    4) You continue to say “we in the west”. If you don't like the west why are you here. If China is so great why are you not there. Why are you living with people and in countries you obviously have no respect for?

    5) You continue to state that 'we' (who is this collective) continue to force our values (there is no universal set of values BTW) on others, specifically China. There has been no use of 'force' as defined in the dictionary by this article or anyone else. This article can no more 'force' a country, individual, ethnic, religious, racial, governmental or political group to be compelled to do, not do, or comply with anything than it can make you act in a rational, reasoned and logical manner.

    6) You continue to talk about people 'selling' China to the west. China has been engaged in 'selling' itself wholesale for over a generation (at least) to the so-called 'west' and anyone who can pay the highest price. This was done by the Chinese government and the Chinese government alone. If you cant deal with that reality you need counseling, a history lesson, a short course in modern economics and more importantly to wake up from the sleep you have been in for decades.

    7) As regards selling, I was brought up that it was preferable to stealing which is what China has been engaged in for quite some time. If someone in the west has an idea, or a legal copyright the Chinese (as a nation, not a race) will attempt to pilfer it and sell it as their own. China's courts and government have no issue with such theft and as such Chinas reputation regards having any respect for intellectual property (or anything else) has muddied its overall reputation. Do not expect people to respect thieves. The coding of much of this Green Dam software has been shown to have been stolen from a US based, licensed and copyrighted filtering software.

    8) At a practical level if a Chinese sold laptop exits the PRC what happens then. It will be in breach of the laws of other nations which prohibit such censorship. Not that China has any respect for this but I do. If the government of China feel it is their right to extend their jurisdiction and laws beyond their borders that is forcing (by definition) users outside that jurisdiction using that piece of equipment (not owned by the Chinese government) to adhere to that law. That is illegal, no question. Furthermore if that laptop where to be repaired outside China and this software re-installed by Sony or other authorized company acting as agent that company is in clear breach of the law of that country. If this software is enabled outside China then that piece of equipment should, by law, be prevented from entering/being used in another sovereign country.

    9) The 'west' as you put it have had a hand in Chinese affairs for quite some time, true. They had a slight hand in defeating the Japanese (non-western) who were busy slaughtering Chinese people by their millions. Without such western interference the Japanese would never have left China and tens, if not hundreds of millions more would have been murdered. What bad people the westerners are. Furthermore the South Koreans (again non-westerners) may view western 'interference' a little differently as they were assisted in protecting their nation from slaughter by a North Korea supported by China, your wonderful PRC. BTW, as an Irishman, an evil westener, the only thing we have attacked or had our hands in in our history was a pint of Guinness, so mind your generalisations.

    10) Another history lesson. I trust my eyes more than I trust any government, least that of the PRC. Regards Tienanmen I saw what I saw on TV, hastily recorded by fleeing cameramen. It did not look to me like a staged recording and that will be how I view the matter. No PRC propaganda or you coming on here will change that without empirical evidence and data. As for the tanks having sheaths on their muzzles you should be aware of 3 understandings. Firstly, it takes moments to remove those sheaths, they do not prevent tank crews from engaging in firing shells for more than 2 minutes. Secondly, the use of tank shell to disperse at close range groups of non-armoured rioters is known not to be effective, causing confusion, friendly casualties and allowing protestors to get under fire range and attack the tank directly where she is vulnerable. Thirdly, I would doubt the PRC government would have seen the destruction of Tienanmen square through tank shell fire as either warranted, desirable or indeed allowable. Machine cannon and short-range mounted gun fire, in addition to smoke are far more efficient methods, which all tanks where equipped with as compliment.

    11) “do u know what it is like to govern 1.4 billion ppl”. No, neither do you unless your Hu Jintao so stop asking stupid rhetorical questions.

    12) You appear to be acting in your own mind as the mouth-piece for the Chinese people and their views on this matter. If these are the views of the people this can never be known if you do not allow the Chinese people to speak, speech which this software is undeniably designed to prevent and is the point of the article. Fantastic irony don't you think, but then again its questionable whether its you thinking or the PRC doing it for you (filter if necessary). Do try and use logic next time you comment on an open forum regards politics which people from the 'WEST' (caps) can read, reply to and you would not be able to if your argument to allow such software were to succeed. Using free speech to argue against free speech. Ironic, hypocritical and argumentatively suicidal.

    BTW: Do the government of the PRC know your talking to us westerners on an open forum or should I tell them. If you actually are an individual and not a government employee and you move to the wonderful fantastic PRC I hope your soon forced to run your favourite governments wonderful software and therefore I won't have to hear from you ever again. I hear Sony have a wonderful range of computers which you may or may not be allowed to purchase and use. Do tell, or try to, if you get one. Hypocrite.

  • realSONYGuru

    i feel sorry, cuz all ur time wasted on this long reply simply demonstrated you have NO IDEA about social political system as well as Pacific Rim history social studies (well maybe u do but the ones taught in the WEST), you have NO IDEA of the Chinese history, Chinese ppl, their value, culture and I doubt you know much about modern world history based on ur comment on the WW2, haha, learn some history, learn to respect other cultures, races have their ways of dealing their own things. the btm line, u have NO RIGHT to even talk about it, cuz it is not for you or anyone to judge the right or wrong something you have NO CLUE of.

    nothing in ur reply is worth my direct reply, however, i have to say something about ur foolish commnet on me “have no respect for” certain “world” i'm living in! last time I checked, saying “we in the west” does not mean I do NOT like the west, (just becuz the Dxie CHicks said they were “ashamed of being an American”, does not mean they had no respect for their country, they were only seeking changes to make it a better place) it is my home and do I even have to say more than that???!!! I'm here by default, it's not like you have the control over where you born.

    China is great, just like many other countries and cultures on this big blue planet, and ur comment shows enough evidences for me to call you a Racist!!! I have a lot respect for everyone, every country and every culture, thus I would spend my time defending the Chinese government's policies instead of bashing them like you, who clearly has no respect for cultures and ppl other than your own, & a sad Racist would never learn to value what this world has to offer.

    open your heart and mind, be kind, also just accept the fact, it has NOTHING to do with you what other countries or governments r doing in order to make their countries a better place for their citizens. the only thing u CAN do is taking care of your own business, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS! that's the REAL lesson YOU learned.

    Good day, mate (who's from the land)

  • realSONYGuru

    I meant”

    Good day, Mate (ho's from the FAR FAR land) jaja

  • realSONYGuru

    oops, sorry, I meant to say

    Good day, Mate (WHO's from the FAR FAR land), not “ho” haha, sorry

  • Jurisprudence

    Thats fantastic. I'm glad you feel that “nothing in ur reply is worth my direct reply”. Rather that is an excuse made by people who cannot defend their own comments.

    I have a very well versed understanding of Chinese history, her trials and tribulations, wars lost and won, political troubles and social upheavals, mass innovations and unfortunate losses. All taught to me by the Chinese, nice enough to do it in English as I still have trouble getting used to the script. Those I know do not speak well of their time at the hands of the PRC, yet are proud of being Chinese. Its better they are here where they cannot be told what they are allowed to say or imprisoned if they do not tow the line. I only hope the economy doesn't force them to move away, or worse for them, back to China. Therefore your statement that “u have NO RIGHT to even talk about it, cuz it is not for you or anyone to judge the right or wrong something you have NO CLUE of” is false. I do know the history, I do know the culture and people (as best a westerner can I feel) and as stated in my 1st post I have a right to discuss it by virtue of my constitution, its not for you to say I do not merely because I was not born there or I am not from your racial grouping.

    Oh and calling me a racist, thats even better. I work and am friends with citizens from over 60 different countries on a one to one basis, including Chinese. Two of my best mates are from HK (are you one of those that doesn't consider them real Chinese???), long term and hard core friends and now both naturalized Irish and both damn proud of it, them and me. But I do not pull punches with them on any matter regards their country, and nor do they on mine (now also theirs, hehe). Heated discussion on important issues is better than silence and restriction of free speech. People who pull the racist (should I use caps??) excuse in making an argument like yourself only show a clear inability to argue rationally and are generally considered racist themselves. Its the old race card. When caught in a corner, you pull it out and expect to win. Sorry, but that doesn't work in a multi-ethnic country such as mine. Keep the racist card in your pocket, it makes you look like the joker of the pack. Thats playground tactics.

    Your right on one point, we cannot control where we are born, but we sure as hell can ensure that if that place is one where free speech and freedom has been gained (700 years for my people including the genocide of half my countries population) that it be maintained and allowed to flourish to others if they may not be so fortunate as ourselves. It must be fought for lest it be lost as the fight back has destroyed nations, even continents. As Marcus Tullius Cicero once stated “Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.” Arguing against maintaining free speech has the unfortunate effect of not being able to avail of it if is later needed. We had that with Adolf Hitler in Europe once before, never again.

    As for conflict history, I've spent 20 years studying all aspects of WW2, all theatres, all political entities, all social and economic structures, cultures and causative interactions from all players of the most horrific game in world history, both before and after the conflicts. As you know yourself regards that particular conflict the struggle for China's people had begun long before Germany invaded Poland, and for many continued long after the surrender in Berlin or the conclusion of the war in the Pacific theatre. It is merely not well acknowledged or documented in modern western texts unless you educate yourself. I have. You will have to do better than attack me on that front (pun intended).

    However the questions and assertions posited in my 1st reply to your original posts stand and you have not brought anything to the table rather than an accusation that I am an racist. They are observations, both mine and others, legal positions not in dispute, and queries regards the implementation of this software and its legal basis as is one of the points of the originating article. If you Google my tag you would see what Jurisprudence stands for. In a court if questioned you have to answer. This is not a court, luckily, but if someone in any sphere merely walks away from important questions leaving them unanswered by dismissing their maker they appear to the world that those positions cannot be defended.

    There is a phrase, when in Rome…., I'm sure you know the rest. When unlawful censorship, or possibility thereof, whether intentionally or unintentionally, may be shown to be practiced by the PRC government outside its jurisdiction that is a national (for the effected country) and international affair for the world of paramount importance and not just for the Chinese people but for those worldwide. If you have looked at the terms of Green Dam at all you would see its allowance of remote access entry, amongst many other questionable areas. However it does not define where in the world this might be accessed. International governments do not allow another unauthorized government to access electronics which are attached to their networks. This opens the possibility of spidering to occur using innocent Chinese travelers using consumer grade laptops to be used as collection and observation points by foreign governments, in this case from China. That government is well known (as with many others) to be engaged already in espionage using already established networks. That is illegal and stands as a serious threat to national and international security if used wholesale. The sale of tens of millions of laptops fro multinationals moving globally from the PRC is an international issue of wholesale proportions. As someone involved deeply in law (particularly human rights aspects), networking, security and as a citizen of my country and the EU that is my business and always will be.

    P.S: it didn't take me that long to write either this or the other reply. I think and type fast.

  • Jurisprudence

    And sorry for the edit but your still not getting the logical point. Using the reference to the Dixie Chicks is great. If they were Chinese under the PRC they wouldn't be able to say they were ashamed now would they. They were only able to be tell you they were ashamed due to their ability to access forums for and use free speech, which you are doing in this forum and those in China are being denied. You are using free speech to argue against allowing free speech. Illogical, simply illogical.

    Have a good day yourself. Your never in a far off land on the net, your always just a ping away. Unless your behind a national firewall that is.

  • realSONYGuru

    haha, i thought there would be something worthy replying this time, well the same thing again, it's a shame, cuz i do love discussing with ppl who actually have knowledge on things they like to talk about. oh well, can't get ur hope high, eh. jaja

    P.S. think fast? mostly definitely unthoughtful; type fast? way faters here. :) cheers Mate from far far land.

  • Jurisprudence

    I'm not quite sure what your laughing at really. To anyone who is reading this its clear you have no answers to the questions posited other than to verbalize and re-iterate base level propaganda of the PRC government and retreat from explanations for policies which restrict the rights of the Chinese people using Sony products. You had your chance, you can't handle it. Quite sad really. You also look like a fool and someone with no grasp of basic logic. I hope people like you don't hold sway over these important matters. Go back to your little myopic world. Your out of your league on these matters. Let the grown ups get on with things and fight for the rights of free speech on the net and elsewhere.

  • realSONYGuru

    still nothing worth replying, but i have to say, you are a FOOL, only becuz you said it in ur reply, that's all, there are so much to talk about on this topic, i do not wanna waste my time going deep on this issue especially with someone who has very little knowledge. so I say, mate who's from the far far land, just go about ur own business, and may u rest in peace. FOOL

    i won't be discussing anything with u until u could grasp real logic, which i doubt u'll ever be able to, which is Quite sad really. you had ur chance. jaja. ばかにしている, 你就是个傻蛋. jaja WORD!

  • Jurisprudence

    This will actually be my last comment on this. I have a paper due on the application of torture as a method used for law and political policy enforcement, the PRC part is long since done. Lets see, career and life versus continuing this. Eh, I'll pick the 1st option.

    Your right on one thing, there is so much more to discuss on this issue, its vast and important. And I also feel the same as you in that I don't think such a discussion can be advanced by speaking to you since you can't answer questions but merely call people racists to make up for your argumentative weakness. Its shown by the fact you switch language at the end to insult me when I told you I have difficulty reading Chinese script. Nice play, if your an 8 year old. If not you need to grow up and act maturely, even on the internet. Btw using caplock in arguments is not helpful to your arguments. Try posting without it to the next person unfortunate enough to speak with you.

    I see your doing the old 'must get the last word on the forum in even if it has nothing to add' thingy. Great stuff. You ceased to partake in the discussion long ago anyway. I dont have time to play kid. I'll give it over to you to send the next comment but you'll be speaking to dead air from now on. Enjoy.

  • realSONYGuru

    lol, it's so funny u think ppl who dont care to waste time to answer ur stupid questions r unable to. haha, keep dreaming and keep being an ignorant fool. that's the very problem with WEST society, out of touch ignorant and so very fool of oneslef. pure comedy.

    u should make some money and be able to travel and do whatever u want, only then u'll understand the true freedom! ur little so called “Freedom of speech” is so pathetic, haha, first go get urself some Hermès, otherwise, stop bothering me, u ain't rich nor worthy for my time. haha, FOOL from the far far LAND.

  • realSONYGuru

    i feel sorry, cuz all ur time wasted on this long reply simply demonstrated you have NO IDEA about social political system as well as Pacific Rim history social studies (well maybe u do but the ones taught in the WEST), you have NO IDEA of the Chinese history, Chinese ppl, their value, culture and I doubt you know much about modern world history based on ur comment on the WW2, haha, learn some history, learn to respect other cultures, races have their ways of dealing their own things. the btm line, u have NO RIGHT to even talk about it, cuz it is not for you or anyone to judge the right or wrong something you have NO CLUE of.

    nothing in ur reply is worth my direct reply, however, i have to say something about ur foolish commnet on me “have no respect for” certain “world” i'm living in! last time I checked, saying “we in the west” does not mean I do NOT like the west, (just becuz the Dxie CHicks said they were “ashamed of being an American”, does not mean they had no respect for their country, they were only seeking changes to make it a better place) it is my home and do I even have to say more than that???!!! I'm here by default, it's not like you have the control over where you born.

    China is great, just like many other countries and cultures on this big blue planet, and ur comment shows enough evidences for me to call you a Racist!!! I have a lot respect for everyone, every country and every culture, thus I would spend my time defending the Chinese government's policies instead of bashing them like you, who clearly has no respect for cultures and ppl other than your own, & a sad Racist would never learn to value what this world has to offer.

    open your heart and mind, be kind, also just accept the fact, it has NOTHING to do with you what other countries or governments r doing in order to make their countries a better place for their citizens. the only thing u CAN do is taking care of your own business, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS! that's the REAL lesson YOU learned.

    Good day, mate (who's from the land)

  • realSONYGuru

    I meant”

    Good day, Mate (ho's from the FAR FAR land) jaja

  • realSONYGuru

    oops, sorry, I meant to say

    Good day, Mate (WHO's from the FAR FAR land), not “ho” haha, sorry

  • Jurisprudence

    Thats fantastic. I'm glad you feel that “nothing in ur reply is worth my direct reply”. Rather that is an excuse made by people who cannot defend their own comments.

    I have a very well versed understanding of Chinese history, her trials and tribulations, wars lost and won, political troubles and social upheavals, mass innovations and unfortunate losses. All taught to me by the Chinese, nice enough to do it in English as I still have trouble getting used to the script. Those I know do not speak well of their time at the hands of the PRC, yet are proud of being Chinese. Its better they are here where they cannot be told what they are allowed to say or imprisoned if they do not tow the line. I only hope the economy doesn't force them to move away, or worse for them, back to China. Therefore your statement that “u have NO RIGHT to even talk about it, cuz it is not for you or anyone to judge the right or wrong something you have NO CLUE of” is false. I do know the history, I do know the culture and people (as best a westerner can I feel) and as stated in my 1st post I have a right to discuss it by virtue of my constitution, its not for you to say I do not merely because I was not born there or I am not from your racial grouping.

    Oh and calling me a racist, thats even better. I work and am friends with citizens from over 60 different countries on a one to one basis, including Chinese. Two of my best mates are from HK (are you one of those that doesn't consider them real Chinese???), long term and hard core friends and now both naturalized Irish and both damn proud of it, them and me. But I do not pull punches with them on any matter regards their country, and nor do they on mine (now also theirs, hehe). Heated discussion on important issues is better than silence and restriction of free speech. People who pull the racist (should I use caps??) excuse in making an argument like yourself only show a clear inability to argue rationally and are generally considered racist themselves. Its the old race card. When caught in a corner, you pull it out and expect to win. Sorry, but that doesn't work in a multi-ethnic country such as mine. Keep the racist card in your pocket, it makes you look like the joker of the pack. Thats playground tactics.

    Your right on one point, we cannot control where we are born, but we sure as hell can ensure that if that place is one where free speech and freedom has been gained (700 years for my people including the genocide of half my countries population) that it be maintained and allowed to flourish to others if they may not be so fortunate as ourselves. It must be fought for lest it be lost as the fight back has destroyed nations, even continents. As Marcus Tullius Cicero once stated “Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.” Arguing against maintaining free speech has the unfortunate effect of not being able to avail of it if is later needed. We had that with Adolf Hitler in Europe once before, never again.

    As for conflict history, I've spent 20 years studying all aspects of WW2, all theatres, all political entities, all social and economic structures, cultures and causative interactions from all players of the most horrific game in world history, both before and after the conflicts. As you know yourself regards that particular conflict the struggle for China's people had begun long before Germany invaded Poland, and for many continued long after the surrender in Berlin or the conclusion of the war in the Pacific theatre. It is merely not well acknowledged or documented in modern western texts unless you educate yourself. I have. You will have to do better than attack me on that front (pun intended).

    However the questions and assertions posited in my 1st reply to your original posts stand and you have not brought anything to the table rather than an accusation that I am an racist. They are observations, both mine and others, legal positions not in dispute, and queries regards the implementation of this software and its legal basis as is one of the points of the originating article. If you Google my tag you would see what Jurisprudence stands for. In a court if questioned you have to answer. This is not a court, luckily, but if someone in any sphere merely walks away from important questions leaving them unanswered by dismissing their maker they appear to the world that those positions cannot be defended.

    There is a phrase, when in Rome…., I'm sure you know the rest. When unlawful censorship, or possibility thereof, whether intentionally or unintentionally, may be shown to be practiced by the PRC government outside its jurisdiction that is a national (for the effected country) and international affair for the world of paramount importance and not just for the Chinese people but for those worldwide. If you have looked at the terms of Green Dam at all you would see its allowance of remote access entry, amongst many other questionable areas. However it does not define where in the world this might be accessed. International governments do not allow another unauthorized government to access electronics which are attached to their networks. This opens the possibility of spidering to occur using innocent Chinese travelers using consumer grade laptops to be used as collection and observation points by foreign governments, in this case from China. That government is well known (as with many others) to be engaged already in espionage using already established networks. That is illegal and stands as a serious threat to national and international security if used wholesale. The sale of tens of millions of laptops fro multinationals moving globally from the PRC is an international issue of wholesale proportions. As someone involved deeply in law (particularly human rights aspects), networking, security and as a citizen of my country and the EU that is my business and always will be.

    P.S: it didn't take me that long to write either this or the other reply. I think and type fast.

  • Jurisprudence

    And sorry for the edit but your still not getting the logical point. Using the reference to the Dixie Chicks is great. If they were Chinese under the PRC they wouldn't be able to say they were ashamed now would they. They were only able to be tell you they were ashamed due to their ability to access forums for and use free speech, which you are doing in this forum and those in China are being denied. You are using free speech to argue against allowing free speech. Illogical, simply illogical.

    Have a good day yourself. Your never in a far off land on the net, your always just a ping away. Unless your behind a national firewall that is.

  • realSONYGuru

    haha, i thought there would be something worthy replying this time, well the same thing again, it's a shame, cuz i do love discussing with ppl who actually have knowledge on things they like to talk about. oh well, can't get ur hope high, eh. jaja

    P.S. think fast? mostly definitely unthoughtful; type fast? way faters here. :) cheers Mate from far far land.

  • Jurisprudence

    I'm not quite sure what your laughing at really. To anyone who is reading this its clear you have no answers to the questions posited other than to verbalize and re-iterate base level propaganda of the PRC government and retreat from explanations for policies which restrict the rights of the Chinese people using Sony products. You had your chance, you can't handle it. Quite sad really. You also look like a fool and someone with no grasp of basic logic. I hope people like you don't hold sway over these important matters. Go back to your little myopic world. Your out of your league on these matters. Let the grown ups get on with things and fight for the rights of free speech on the net and elsewhere.

  • realSONYGuru

    still nothing worth replying, but i have to say, you are a FOOL, only becuz you said it in ur reply, that's all, there are so much to talk about on this topic, i do not wanna waste my time going deep on this issue especially with someone who has very little knowledge. so I say, mate who's from the far far land, just go about ur own business, and may u rest in peace. FOOL

    i won't be discussing anything with u until u could grasp real logic, which i doubt u'll ever be able to, which is Quite sad really. you had ur chance. jaja. ばかにしている, 你就是个傻蛋. jaja WORD!

  • Jurisprudence

    This will actually be my last comment on this. I have a paper due on the application of torture as a method used for law and political policy enforcement, the PRC part is long since done. Lets see, career and life versus continuing this. Eh, I'll pick the 1st option.

    Your right on one thing, there is so much more to discuss on this issue, its vast and important. And I also feel the same as you in that I don't think such a discussion can be advanced by speaking to you since you can't answer questions but merely call people racists to make up for your argumentative weakness. Its shown by the fact you switch language at the end to insult me when I told you I have difficulty reading Chinese script. Nice play, if your an 8 year old. If not you need to grow up and act maturely, even on the internet. Btw using caplock in arguments is not helpful to your arguments. Try posting without it to the next person unfortunate enough to speak with you.

    I see your doing the old 'must get the last word on the forum in even if it has nothing to add' thingy. Great stuff. You ceased to partake in the discussion long ago anyway. I dont have time to play kid. I'll give it over to you to send the next comment but you'll be speaking to dead air from now on. Enjoy.

  • realSONYGuru

    lol, it's so funny u think ppl who dont care to waste time to answer ur stupid questions r unable to. haha, keep dreaming and keep being an ignorant fool. that's the very problem with WEST society, out of touch ignorant and so very fool of oneslef. pure comedy.

    u should make some money and be able to travel and do whatever u want, only then u'll understand the true freedom! ur little so called “Freedom of speech” is so pathetic, haha, first go get urself some Hermès, otherwise, stop bothering me, u ain't rich nor worthy for my time. haha, FOOL from the far far LAND.

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  • sethadjei

    how do i get my VGA drivers used on VISTA or window 7 on the internet. My model = PCG-7M1L and other number = VGN-FS980 . Please i need information abt this now because i have been searching for it a long time.

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